Objectivity: means independent existence, regardless of mentality/consciousness, though perception is axiomatic, necessary for apprehension of reality....

Below-copied by ap first published at comments, https://bellofchurch.blogspot.com/2016/11/is-god-responsible-for-original-sin.html#comment-form

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Objectivity: Independent Existence In Accord W. Identity, A = A

(Apollonian, 29 Nov 16)

As I understand Aristotle, primary def. of "objective" is existing independently, regardless one's own mentality (subjectivism) or perception, but perception otherwise being necessary, axiomatic means ("consciousness" necessary accompaniment of identity and objectivity) of apprehending such objective reality.

So if there's objective reality, including of particulars, then they have necessary natures for potential and actual, etc., all in accord w. cause-effect, the scientific, verified reality of all observations--DETERMINISM.

Satanism (extreme subjectivism by way of pretending to Godliness) then attempts to pretending there's exception to determinism--by means of fallacious, delusionary, hereticalist (Pelagianist) "free" will, key to their satanic criminal conspiracies by which satanists take advantage of rest of (childish) humanity, typically, historically beginning w. delusionary, child's "good-evil" delusion, as pretext for further delusions, esp. and ultimately in way of "central-banking," etc., by which they seek total ownership/control of everything and everyone, so often seeming to coming soooo close to actually succeeding in this (dictatorship), but ALWAYS failing, ho ho oho ho.

-----------------------above by ap in response to below-copied----------------------------------

Liberty Bell November 29, 2016 at 7:22 PM

But what does "objective" mean? When I turn to my trusty dictionary and look under "O," I find that "objective" means "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

I take that as my starting point. It's a neutral definition in the sense that I didn't just formulate it in order to buttress my position or to attack yours.

You, however, appear to want to simply "define" "objective" as "determined" in order to "win" the debate by ipse dixit. Well, that's quite a trick. You just continue:

5. If reality is objective, then it's determined.
6. Reality is objective.
7. Therefore, reality is determined.

But why should I go along with this? What reason can you provide in support of premise 5? Why should I think that for x to be "independent of human opinion" (which is the definition that I am using for "objective") entails that x is "determined"? Certainly, you haven't provided *any* reason for me to think this. And I can see none.

"Reality is objective but not determined" is only a contradiction is "objective" entails, means, or is synonymous with "determined." Let me be clear: Presently, I deny that "objective" entails, means, or is synonymous with "determined." Therefore, I see no contradiction. I am open to the possibility that you could help me to see a contradiction. But you have to do better than to simply demand, insist, or other suggest that I just accept the identification of "objectivity" and "determination." Why should I do that? (And if you really think that everything is determined, then why try to argue with me? Are you determined to argue? Are we both not determined to hold our differing views? What's the point of arguing?)

Well, that's all the time I have for now. As always, thanks for the attention.

Non-existent "good": worst enemy of TRUTH (= Christ), pretext for satanism, lies....

Below-copied by ap first published at comments, https://bellofchurch.blogspot.com/20...ginal-sin.html

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"Good": Worst Enemy Of Truth (= Christ)
(Apollonian, 24 Nov 16)

Note the horrific enmity of (non-existent) "good" for TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6), this "good" pretext for satanism (extreme subjectivism). Worst enemy of truth is "good."

Thus to begin, (a) we have the suicide of the white race in USA at the Civil War, the northerners acceding to the mass-murder of their own people, failing and refusing the right of self-gov., consent of governed. Of course, there were complications, northerners persuaded South wanted to take the Western territories for slavery, following Dred Scott Decision. Regardless, note the ease by which moralism ALWAYS intrudes any discussion of the strict issue for states-rights, by means of "slavery."

(b) Then we have the issue of "prohibition" (of alcoholic beverages), obviously idiotic, and obviously inspired by moralism destroying law. Precisely same sort of moralism continues in the drug laws of today. Enough said on this subject to demonstrate the pt., though many details can be added.

(c) Seat-belt laws are infamous and notorious.

(d) Perhaps worst of all is the legalized counterfeiting of central-banking by which satanism is entrenched and established as the leading power, as we see, owning/controlling all judges and politicians, over-populated morons and scum persuaded it's "good" to have more and evermore currency (not real "money") by means of the fiat-currency now pumped-out by the criminals and satanists.

Thus we see the means by which satanism operates and prevails--by means of the lie about "good" which works so diabolically against truth and justice. "Good" the foremost pretext for satanism. Not for nothing were Pharisaics ID'd as worst enemy of God and humanity (and which such Pharisaics essentially admit in their own Talmud).

Ethics must, should be rational, following the basic premises, objectivity, hence determinism....

Below-copied by ap first published at comments, https://bellofchurch.blogspot.com/20...l#comment-form

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Ethics MUST Be Rational
(Apollonian, 21 Nov 16)

Determinism, as I understand is simply cause-effect. 1 + 1 always equals 2; water is always 2 atoms of hydrogen bonded to an atom of oxygen. Determinism (absolute cause-effect) is the outcome of every observation, is the observation, and hence by induction the working rule. Hence we say determinism follows objectivity, a subset.

Insanity and disobedience are not synonyms, but "sin" is taught to control children and people, for practical purposes, dis-obedience. If u go by the Catholic definition, doing something u KNOW is "wrong" would be insane, right?--why otherwise would one do it?

And why wouldn't rationality be same as morality?--how could it not? Ho ho ho ho Ethics is just logic btwn ends and means.


----------------------above by ap in response to below-copied-------------------


Liberty Bell November 21, 2016 at 12:33 PM

Thanks for the attention :-) I don't have much time, presently. But let me comment on a few things.

First:

>>...[T]o make sense of any of this about sin, we must realize that as reality must be objective (otherwise anything goes, in subjectivism), it's determined according to strict cause-effect (God's will).<<

You have to do a little more work defining your terms if I am to follow you. Generally, something's being "objective" is cashed out in terms of that thing's existing independently of human minds or human opinions. You seem to be using "objective" as synonymous with "determined." This is not standard usage, nor is it obvious. But I would need some sort of an argument from you linking the two concepts before I could comment upon it further. After all, many philosophical indeterminists and philosophical (as opposed to to political) libertarians hold that the human will is, objectively, indeterministic or libertarian. It might turn out that reality is objectively deterministic. But "reality is objectively deterministic" is hardly a tautology; it's a weighty metaphyiscal thesis, and it requires an argument to substantiate it.

Second:

>>..."Sin" makes no sense except as dis-obedience...<<

This confuses me, since previously you asserted that "no one willingly sins. There's ...only insanity."

So, on your view, is sin "insanity" or "disobedience"? Again, it is not obvious (to me) that "insanity" and "disobedience" are synonyms, let alone identical in meaning. I suppose that a person could argue that "insanity" is something like "disobedience to the laws of rationality." But then "sin" would seem, most straightforwardly, to consist in "disobedience to the laws of morality." Thus although, on this view, sin and insanity would both be species of "disobedience," they would not be identical, since they would be both be "disobedience *to*" different sets of laws - unless, one additionally argued that the laws (if there be such) of rationality and morality came to the same thing. But, again, each of these steps needs to be argued. As things stand, they're just unargued assertions, tantalizing though they be be.

To arms!--to arms!--the satanists (led by kikes) are coming, u stupid scum--time to save ur idiot lives, morons....

To Arms, Suckers--Time To Save Ur Idiot Lives, Morons--And Enemy Is Satanism
(Apollonian, 16 Nov 16)

The poor, brainless, stupid scummy puke and dumb bastards--otherwise known as "people" of Jew S A--need to look at this vid, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeM_l5mkyYc. The satanists are organized, funded, and strategically led; they're not going to allow Trump to get going and rolling, suckers. Satanists ARE DETERMINED FOR REVOLUTION, dumbasses--GET A CLUE, u brainless scum, to save ur stupid lives.

So then, HOW can Trump and Christians begin to organizing most strategically? MAKE USE OF THE WORD, "SATANISM"--the people will understand. But problem is Trump is quite well-controlled by satanists within his own family who are inter-married w. Jews--and Jews know they're satanists, satanically-inspired, and they're determined to serve Jews first and most.

See, satanism is simply extreme subjectivism, making oneself God, as all reality is held to be mere creation and emanation fm one's own consciousness/mentality. But Jews (Talmudists--see Talmudical.blogspot.com) are most practical as they make themselves to being God COLLECTIVISTICALLY, led and organized by their rabbis and religious leaders (a religion of criminality)--unlike so many dumb, isolated, individuated, mystic morons among the goyim who are more obviously psychotic.

That organization is secret to Jews' "success," so to speak. And note this satanism as of Jews could only succeed in a larger, dis-organized society of stupid gentiles filled w. hubris, as we see, esp. built, fm childhood, beginning w. subjectivism of "good-evil."

But again, if we use the word, satanism, people will understand more readily as it stands for simple, really, idea, easily verified by means of most simple perception and cognition. And it's the people, mostly Christian, who will coalesce against this dread, organized, ruthless satanism they're being confronted and terrorized by.

Peace among humankind requires the objective view of reality; war/criminality is founded on the subjectivist....

Below-copied by ap fm comments, https://bellofchurch.blogspot.com/20...76631309038395

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Objectivity Is Basis Of Reason, Peace; Subjectivism/satanism Basis Of War
(Apollonian, 11 Nov 16)

"After all, what is a person saying when he or she declares that he or she wants nothing to do with a God who is the source of existence? Maybe such a person really is saying that he or she does not want to exist at all."

Exactly, that person (fm above quote) doesn't want or choose existence within the God-created, hence OBJECTIVE reality. That person exists only in his own subjectivist reality--which would/could include the collective subjectivism of fellow Jews or satanists (like masons), making oneself God or part thereof.

Such then is the WAR-God of the Jews/satanists, by which Jews/satanists justify the warfare (and criminality) they practice against humanity.

Thus one sees the objective reality is basis of PEACE, aside fm reason, to be practiced by humanity towards fellow humans. Extreme subjectivism of satanism is basis of warfare/criminality.

Heck: in practical terms is madness, psychosis, insanity--hubris....

Below-copied by ap first published at comments, https://bellofchurch.blogspot.com/20...96696383112896

Heck Is Psychosis, Madness, Insanity, In Practical Terms
(Apollonian, 11 Nov 16)

"People who reject God, insofar as they continue to exist, continue to be “related” (in a broad sense) to the source of existence. But since, as we have said, God is the source of existence, it follows that people who reject God continue to be “related” (in the same broad sense) to God.

"What can God do with such people, in order to respect their rejection of Him?"

Christians assert Christ = TRUTH, Gosp. JOHN 14:6. Truth only exists as there's an OBJECTIVE reality, God-given (and -created), upon which such truth reflects and is based. Thus we say truth is objective--as it's based upon reality, hence objectivity, a reflection of reality.

So as Jews and satanists deny the objective reality, God-given and -created, they make themselves God--satanism. Satanism = subjectivism, extreme subjectivism. Judaism (Talmudism) = subjectivism = satanism. And Jews being most practical, successful satanists/subjectivists, top criminals, are COLLECTIVE subjectivists/satanists. Thus we observe serious subjectivists/satanists among gentiles are so often observed as grossly insane/psychotic, Jews seeming thus to retain a measure of sanity by contrast, Jews most practical, successful criminals.

Thus as top criminals are noted for such collectivism and organization, we see Jews are top criminals, dominating organized crime, this criminal enterprise necessarily capped w. the central-banking activity (legalized counterfeiting), funding, financing, CONTROLLING everything else, esp. politics, as we see.

"Tenets" of Christianity cannot be too complex, after all....

Below-copied essay by ap first published at comments, http://bellofchurch.blogspot.com/201...l#comment-form

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What Are "Tenets" Of Dear Christianity?
(Apollonian, 3 Nov 16)

The article's footnote one reads (see above),

"[1].... Here, availing myself of basic tenets of Christianity, I propose to sketch an account of what hell is so that the account may serve to show that the doctrine of hell is not indefensible. By the “doctrine of hell,” I mean the view that there exists a “place” of misery, something of an “opposite” to heaven, where go the souls of those who reject God."

"Basic tenets of Christianity"?--so how complex could this be? For if it were too complex, the religion/philosophy would be useless for most folks. But we see fm history (a) Christian philosophy/religion was (and still is, we pray) actually quite effective and momentous. (b) However, there's something amiss for dear old Christianity, these days, at least as we observe the rampant Satanism (extreme subjectivism) which so much dominates and rules--what has happened?

Thus Christ = TRUTH (Gosp. JOHN 14:6), only way to the Father (Godly happiness), against Jew/satanic lies (JOHN 8:44). Pretty simple "tenets," eh? Thus there's truth, why/how?--because there's OBJECTIVE reality (God-created), truth founded thereby and thereupon. It's why u can't kill truth, and truth resurrects, as on Easter. The joke is upon Jews/Pharisees/Talmudists who pretend truth, as of Torah, is only contingent, subjective, and dependent upon "midrash"/"oral law." Such was/is the great dialectic btwn Christ and foremost satanic enemies of truth, the Pharisees, who thought they could kill truth, but which truth triumphantly resurrected.

Thus satanism is well and best understood as extreme subjectivism, the idea reality is mere emanation of consciousness/mentality, making oneself God, HUBRIS, by definition, which predates Christ and Christianity, well-understood by Greeks as that madness of eventual and un-witting self-destruction, etc. And the Greeks well dramatized various forms of the agony of such hubris and satanism, as, for example, Sophocles' "Antigone," whence Creon's wife, son, and daughter-in-law rather melodramatically committed suicide.

Thus given this rather simple Christian metaphysical foundation, Christ further demonstrates the appropriate ETHICS, and even the politics ("render unto Caesar..."), throughout the Gospels. St. Paul and others further expound upon the politics.

But note there's no perfectly "free" human will--we're all sinners, always have been, always will be, subject to hubris which always be-devils humanity--esp. now in this day--DETERMINISM, necessary consequence of objectivity. Stupid human scum just love to pretend to "good-evil" delusion, easily taught to children and only w. greatest difficulty un-learned.

And what happens in determinist, CYCLIC history, in accord w. Oswald Spengler's "Decline of the West," is human success, "prosperity," and "victory" always begets OVER-POPULATION whence a mass of stupid human scum pretends to "good-evil," typical pretext for hubris, and thus successful (for a while) criminal enterprises like central-banking, the real "usury" (which is NOT mere charging-of-"interest"--see Mises.org for expo).

Note then hubris begets madness--IS madness--and we observe that gentile subjectivists (or satanists) are most often so irrational as to be self-destructive, pathological, and even suicidal, having induced their own little "hell" within their own mal-functioning mentalities.

But Jews are most practical, organized satanists/subjectivists, and that's why they typically lead and define practical, organized satanism, making themselves collectively co-equal w. God, determining reality, at least in the minds of stupid, over-populated mass of humanity, Jews, for example, the top central-bankers and master-minds thereof.

What's happened w. dear Christianity?--well, by means of central-banking Jews now control all organized Christianity, obviously, subverting Christianity, making it satanic, only working against the people, always serving Jews, as we see, Christianity having lost it's necessary, thematic anti-semitic character. Such then are the proper "tenets" of Christianity applied and affected in accord w. circumstances of CYCLIC history.